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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  April 4, 2024 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

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more radical vision for immigration in his second term. one that includes mass detention camps and deportation. while trump has stopped short of saying whether he would resurrect his family separation policy, there are signs he plans to do just that. in recent interviews trump has tried to rebrand his federal kidnapping program as a success. >> we did family separation. a lot of people didn't come. it stopped people from coming by the hundreds of thousands because when they hear family separation, they say well, we better not go and they didn't go. >> tonight, nbc news reports trump is attending a gala sponsored by an anti- immigration advocacy group featuring several architects of his family separation policies. it is important to remember what america's immigration system really looked like under donald trump and how much is still left to repair. things like the unsafe open air
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camps near the southern border where migrants including children are left in the hot desert for days. last night, a federal judge who consistently ruled against the trump administration's treatment of migrants ordered border patrol to try to solve that problem by providing safe sanitary housing for those migrants. one of the thins donald trump might try to do in a second term is shut down that judge's ability to help those migrants. he tried it in his first term and he is bound to try again. that is our show for tonight. now, it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >> good evening, i'm going to as quickly as i can get out of the way and let them talk. i want to say one thing about what we just heard donald trump say. calling people animals. the christians in donald trump's rallies, there are many, many christians in the audiences. they cheer every single time
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donald trump does that. and what they are doing is cheering for a teaching by donald trump that is exactly the opposite of the teaching of jesus christ. i'm going to have something to say about that at the end of this program using similar audio from donald trump and it is beyond the most poisonous stuff we have ever heard from a presidential candidate. >> dehumanizing children and women and men is the most unholy thing you can do. >> it is. it is. >> have a good show. >> thank you alex. thank you. well, donald trump's favorite judge who was appointed by donald trump, judge aileen mercedes cannon made legal history. she became the very first judge ever to deny a trump motion to dismiss criminal charges against donald trump. and not then be attacked by
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donald trump. donald trump did not attack judge cannon. donald trump did not do a social media post with pictures of judge cannon's children attacking her and her children. donald trump did not attack the judge's spouse. donald trump did not attack the judge's staff. in fact, donald trump praised the judge today who denied his motion to dismiss the charges. donald trump posted on social media that special council jack smith should be sanctioned or censured for the way he is attacking a highly respected judge alean cannon. he knows he was in a camp forced by jack smith who cornered her legally in a filing on tuesday to in effect force her to deny donald trump's months old motion to dismiss the case on the grounds
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that the presidential records act allows donald trump to do whatever he wants to do. a serving a search warrant at his resident. judge cannon wrote the presidential records act does not provide a pretrial basis to dismiss. the keyword there is of course, pretrial. judge cannon has reserved the right for later in the proceedings to issue a jury instruction in the case which would basically order the jury to find donald trump not guilty on the basis of the presidential records act. in anticipation of the possibility that judge cannon might act to dismiss the case on the basis of the presidential records act. or, issue jury instructions to the jury ordering them to find
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donald trump not guilty, special prosecutor jack smith asked judge cannon to issue a final ruling now so he can immediately appeal such a ruling to the 11th circuit of appeals which has immediately received judge cannon twice in this case. jack smith wrote if the court concludes that a president has carte blanche to remove any document from the white house at the end of his presidency, as an unreviewable matter of law, and that also as a matter of law, a former president is forever authorized to possess such a document regardless of how highly classified it may be and how it is scored, that
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would constitute an erroneous jury instruction. and the government must again be provided. judge cannon said that asking for a ruling now that the records act applies in this case would be quote unprecedented and unjust. leading off our discussion tonight is lawrence tribe who has taught constitutional law and neil catiel, professor at georgetown law school. neil is an msnbc legal analyst and host of the podcast court side with neil. professor tribe, let me begin with you. the judge in her ruling, is it
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a complex first impression and does that explain the judge's rulings so far? >> it is not at all complex. i'm not sure what she means at first impression other than no one has ever tried to use the presidential records act which was passed after the watergate episode in order to make sure that all official records of the presidency would go to the national archives. no one else has tried to use that civil statute as a way of defending themselves against criminal charges. the presidential records act has absolutely nothing to do with the case. but i think you put your finger on it when you notice that she
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used the word pretrial. , not entitled to a pretrial ruling on this matter. a pretrial determination of that the presidential records act is inapplicable. what he wants is a determination, period. she makes that determination once the trial has begun. once the jury is sworn in. once double jeopardy is attached, she has essentially said i'm going to pretend to be ruling against donald trump. and he understands that it is just a pretense. i'm going to pretend to rule against him. what i'm really doing is reserving the right to rule in
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his favor or against him at a time when nothing can be done about it. so she is basically trying to have it both ways. it is too clever by half. when she says pretrial dismace sal, she suggests that it may provide a basis for dismissal during the trial. that is clearly wrong. that is why it is very clear now that the 11th circuit has twice very sharply reversed her that the time has come for it to take her off the case altogether. it is possible to seek a writ of mandamus immediately. the best way is to make a motion now to take this issue
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off the table. that the presidential records act that cannot be a defense to this prosecution. if she rejects that request, it is a motion in limine. she rejects that request, then jack smith will have done all he can possibly do. because he doesn't know what panel of judges won't be assigned in the 11th circuit, and there are many on that circuit who might be, though not as biased as judge cannon, perhaps inclined to lean in favor of trump. i think the safest course is for him to demand now that she take the entire issue of the
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presidential records act off the table. she says no, he seeks appeal. and asks that she be recused and relies on the panel itself deciding that three strikes is enough. >> we have so lucky to have you both here tonight. both accomplished supreme court practitioners yourselves, having argued dozens of cases there. and having listened to professor tribe, neil, now i'm wondering, did judge cannon in fact by denies donald trump's dismissal motion the way she did, did she actually do the best thing she could possibly have done for donald trump at that moment in that one action? >> she didn't do the best thing, lawrence, but she came pretty close. so she styles this as a win for
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the prosecutor for jack smith. but nobody is celebrating tonight because this order tees up future mischief that she can engage in. in particular, she is refusing to give the prosecution a clean order on the presidential records act which should have been so easy because as larry tribe just said, of course nobody thinks that the presidential records act has anything one whit to do with this. no responsible lawyer i think could make that argument with a straight face and no one has. so then the question is, what does smith do about it? and there's two options for smith really. one is as larry said is to file a motion in limine and go to the trial court again. go back to cannon and say please exclude before the trial everything about the presidential records act. because it just doesn't apply. the other is to file this piece of paper known as a writ of
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mandamus going straight to the court of appeals and saying this decision is so out of whack that you know, you should just, you should hear the case right away before the jury gets seated because once the jury is seated, as larry tribe said, double jeopardy applies. here is where she didn't make the most powerful thing she could have done for former president trump. because, she and her order went so far as to say she is not going to resolve this whole question of the presidential records act now. she said it would be unprecedented and unjust to do that and she went so far as to say she won't resolve it prior to the presentation of trial defenses and evidence. so, what that means is that larry tribe's suggestion is futile. jack smith might want to do it just to check the box but we know what the result is going to be because her decision
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today says she is not going to resolve that question until after the trial begins and after the evidence gets heard. and by the way, it is so ridiculous for her to call this unjust what jack smith is asking for. remember, she is the one who asked jack smith to opine on pr she on her own sent this bizarre two different jury instructions to both sides and said comment on them please. so smith did what he was told. he commented on them and said what every lawyer believes which is the presidential records act has nothing to do with it and then she calls it unprecedented and unjust. at this point, i have certainly seen enough. my guess is the prosecution has seen enough. maybe they will check some boxes and go with the motion of limine, but one way or another, this is going to the 11th circuit. >> what about that? is one route more likely than
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the other? >> i completely agree with neil that asking her to do what i think she must be asked to do, namely, take this off the table, decide now that the presidential records act has nothing to do with it. though it is futile, it is important to check a box. despite the fact that you know what is going to happen. the reason it is important is that i know there are some judges on the 11th circuit who will say she has not made a clear enough error. the error she made error of omission. she has omitted to rule as she should have ruled definitivety. as a result, she has had a sword of damicles that she will
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hang over the prosecution throughout the trial. that she could drop at any time. because the precedent in the 11th circuit, lee opened the possibility that having not made a ruling now, she is not eligible to be mandamused. it is sensible to check a box though you know it is futile. and by the way, it is entirely clear that what she says was unprecedented and unjust of jack smith to ask, is something he never asked. she claimed in her three page opinion that jack smith has unfairly and unprecedentedly demanded that she formulate the jury instructions before the trial has occurred. that would be a bizarre thing
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to ask. maybe not bizarreo, but surely bizarre. what he demanded and now needs to make clear is that the presidential records act be eliminated from the case. when she refuses to eliminate it, that will be a definitive action that can be challenged on mandamus. she is awfully good at being as george conway put it in that conversation with me today, he said she is uniquely incompetent, but this time, the incompetence overcame the effectiveness because she was too clever by half. by creating this situation in limbo, she has invited the special council to call her bluff. and to make her render the ruling that he can then challenge in the 11th circuit. >> neil, surely the argument that professor tribe is making,
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the argument you are making, are being made in the special council's office tonight. is there another argument being made in that office tonight by someone from another tactical perspective saying no, let's just go forward. now is not the time to challenge her? >> you know lawrence, the funny thing is that professor tried it when we were in the justice department. had a similar conversation under not nearly as extreme circumstances about mandamusing a particular judge. and there i think you did hear different perspectives about it but here, my guess in the special council's office, there is no two sides to this. but what she did last year is such an affront to the rule of justice, i expect all they are thinking about is what is the proper way to get this issue before the court of appeals. and you know, it is important i think to zoom out for a moment and remind everyone what this
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case is about. donald trump stole very sensitive, some classified, some unclassified but really sensitive national security information. that is the kind of stuff the justice department prosecutes every day of every week. he then hid the information are after the national archives asked for it. that is compounding the criminal action. he is not just anyone. he obviously knew what classified information was. he served as the president and he did all of this anyway. we can't tolerate a system like that which is why we lock these people up. when donald trump is so afraid to have this case heard before a jury, that he is pulling every stunt in the book to try and delay the trial. and you know, he has someone in judge cannon who has been so far receptive to that. so my hope is this moves to the
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court of appeals quickly and they do what they did last time. >> neil and professor lawrence, we could not have better analysis of this. i really appreciate you both joining us tonight. >> thank you lawrence. >> thank you. and coming up, simon rosenburg has been discovered. the new york times published an article about simon rosenburg saying many democrats are worried trump will beat biden. this one isn't. there is nothing in that new york times article that you don't already know and he has more to say. simon joins us next. more to sa. simon joins us next. schedule with safelite,wind? and we'll come to you to fix it. >> tech vo: this customer was enjoying her morning walk. we texted her when we were on our way. and she could track us and see exactly when we'd arrive. >> woman: i have a few more minutes. let's go! >> tech vo: we came to her with service that fit her schedule. >> woman: you must be pascal. >> tech: nice to meet you. >> tech vo: we got right to work, with a replacement she could trust.
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every single political reporter who chased empty stories about prominent democrats like senator joe manchin may be running against joe biden this year, should
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consider apologizing for wasting your time. today, no labels announced the group will not nominate a third party presidential candidate this year. the wall street journal reports that the announcement quote represented an implosion of the group's ambitious plans to unleash a budget of $70 million toward ballot access and then establish a ticket. that could serve as an alternative to president biden and former president donald trump. no labels couldn't convince any prominent leaders to mount a challenge. vice president kamala harris made her fourth trip to north carolina this year which our next guest says is the democrat's quote most important 2024 battleground expansion state. >> since taking office, the president and i have made an incredible investment. the largest investment ever to take on the climate crisis.
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roughly a trillion dollars with a t, i had to. over the next ten years, and that investment to create millions of jobs, to provide millions of dollars of clean energy, money, investment to small businesses an entrepreneurs. to lower monthly energy bills. we have fought together shoulder to shoulder to expand access to capital for every community. >> in charlotte, north carolina, vice president harris opened one of ten campaign field offices in the state. the north carolina democratic party is out fund raising the north carolina republican party so far. they report as of the latest campaign finance reports in february, the north carolina
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democratic party had 2-point $4 million on hand while the north carolina republican party had $871,000. the last candidate to win north carolina was barack obama in 2008. four years ago, joe biden lost north carolina by just 1.3%. in an interview with the new york times titled many democrats are worried trump will beat biden, this one isn't. simon rosenberg says we are quietly confident in the grand scope of things. we can handle this. we can win the election. joining us now is optimist simon rosenberg. he is a democratic strategist and article of hope yum chronicles. i know there will be many more demands for your time now that the new york times has discovered you. but i want to go back to this
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news media that has deliver today us for over a year that america doesn't want the same two candidates, doesn't want biden versus trump. and all the speculation on different democrats who could challenge joe biden for the democratic nomination. every single one of those evaporated. none of them wanted to do it. none of them wanted to join the no labels crusade to try to destroy this two party grip on this process. and that is largely because among other things, joe biden is such a strong candidate. none of them would dare to take him on. >> yeah. listen, joe biden is a good president. the country is better off. the democratic party is unified strong and winning elections all across the country. and you know, look what
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happened. right? robert kennedy ran in the democratic primary. and was struggling so bad that he had to leave. and then dean phillips got in and he had a failure to launch. he never really got off the ground. now we have this no labels thing crashing and burning because joe biden at the end of the day, democrats are behind this guy. his approval rating with democrats is 80%. there has been no, he has been getting, he has been raising tons of money. he has performed very well in the primaries when he had to. the party is strong right now. we are unified. the contrast between what is happening on our side and the republican side is extraordinary. donald trump has an unprecedented opposition and rebellion against him happening on the republican side. mitt romney. liz cheney. all the people that used to work for him are now openly saying that republicans shouldn't vote for him. we have never seen anything like this. in the time we have been in the
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business. and the contrast between unified strong party behind a successful president and this unbelievable dumpster fire happening on the other side as i said that donald trump is the ugliest political thing that any of us have ever seen in our lifetime. and the republicans are spitting the bit on him that i think will be deeply important as we go deeper into the general election. >> so, no members of the biden administration have left the administration and are out there saying you absolutely must not vote for joe biden for president. of course, dozens from the trump administration and i want to show president biden and bernie sanders. a little video here. because this once represented the two edges of the democratic party. now you can't find any space between them. this is a demonstration of how unified the democratic party is. let's listen to this. >> politicians have been
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talking about the high cost of prescription drugs for years including me. a lot of talk, yep. but no real progress. the drug companies continued to go along their merry way and raise prices any time they wanted to any level that they wanted for any reason they wanted. >> bernie, you and i have been fighting this for 25 years. finally, finally, we beat big pharma. finally. >> and simon, he is absolutely right. it has been a 25 year fight. >> yeah. look. i mean, this gets, i think this was really an important clip you showed because it didn't get a lot of press today and it is a sign of the unity of the democratic party. just last week, joe biden was with bill clinton and barack obama. this week, he is with bernie sanders and part of what they are doing, they are showing the party is rallying behind him. that we are strong, that we are coming together. that we are getting ready for
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this general election battle. where on the other side as we went through earlier, you are seeing unprecedented splintering and in fighting and sort of disgust, frankly with their historically awful nominee. and so, i think the biden world is doing this very purposefully. they are demonstrating the team is coming together. fighting this extraordinary battle for the future of our democracy. and he is exhibiting strong powerful adroit leadership every day. we are in good shape, democrats. we should win this election. we have a good leader. right? the party is unified. and they i think the conceit happening in the national media where they have to treat trump like a serious presidential candidate instead of the ugliest thing we have ever seen, i think that is beginning to wear away. i think you can feel it in the national media coverage, the absurdity of the current trump campaign is starting to bleed
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into the daily coverage. they can't raise money. republicans are abandoning ship in the house. you and i have been doing this a long time. we have never seen what we are seeing with the current party. >> i have not been doing this. which is campaign analysis with your expertise. at any level for any period of time. you are guiding me through this. simon, thank you very much for joining us. coming up, president biden will meet with the families of the immigrant workers killed when the francis scott key bridge in baltimore collapsed. donald trump says they are not people. our next guest comes from a family of immigrants who donald trump claims are poisoning the blood of this country. tom perez, senior adviser to president biden who visited with those workers families joins us next. rs families joins us next. crohn's diseae skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission
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president biden is going to meet tomorrow with the families of the six men who were killed when the francis scott key bridge collapsed. donald trump says that they are not people. donald trump says they are animals. >> if you call them people, i don't know if you call them people. in some cases they are not people. these are animals okay? >> every trump supporting
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christian knows that donald trump's belief that immigrants are not people is the exact opposite of what jesus christ said about all people. donald trump defies what are supposed to be the beliefs of his christian audiences. by declaring people to be animals and his audiences clap for that. donald trump's christian audiences love it. every single time donald trump openly and loudly and profanely defies the teachings of jesus christ. our next guest tom perez has poisoned the blood of america by his very existence according to donald trump. his father, dr. rafael antonio dejesus perez left the dominican republic and earned his citizenship after enlisting in the united states army as a
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physician after world war ii. his father died of a heart attack when tom perez was just 12 years old. his mother grace arrived in the united states from the dominican republic in the 1930s as a little girl. tom perez graduated from harvard law school and became the 26th secretary of labor serving in the obama administration. the day after the francis scott key bridge in baltimore collapsed, tom perez drove to baltimore to meet with the families of the men who were killed in the middle of the night when they were trying to make their family's lives better and to make our lives a little better to literally smooth the road of our lives by filling potholes on that bridge. six men fell to their deaths in the cold water under that
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bridge. 35-year-old alejandro hernandez fuentes was from mexico. 26-year-old dorleancastillo cabrera. and jose lopez from guatemala. maynor suarzo. the philadelphia inquirer will bunch who joined us on this program monday night wrote last week these six workers who perished were not poisoning the blood of our country. they were replenishing it. this is a moment of clarity when we need to reject the national disease of xenophobia and restore our faith in the united states as a beacon for the best people like suazo. they may have been born all
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over the continent but when these men plunged into our waters on tuesday, they died as americans. joining our discussion now is tom perez, senior adviser and assistant to president biden. thank you very much for joining us tonight. i really appreciate it. what was it like for you that day when you drove up to baltimore to meet with those families? >> it was gut wrenching, lawrence. the family speaks only spanish so we had a conversation in spanish. and i kept asking what can we do? when i first talked to the president about what happened, his first concern was with the family. as you know, he is no stranger to tragedy especially sudden tragedy. the thing he kept saying over and over again. cuerpo, in spanish is i want my husband's body.
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the body. i need the body. and these six men, hay ward hard working. they were fathers. they were sons, they were husbands. they were soccer lovers and church going. they were god fearing. they did work that few people will do at 1:45 in the morning so that people could have a better commute. because of that, we violated the fundamental right they have in a workplace which is to come home at night so it was profoundly sad. mr. fuentes is a father of four. so many people leave so many kids and so many people, so many of the victims were sending money home as well. we have people suffering here and relatives suffering at home. it was heart wrenching.
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i can't describe it any other way. but the president said i want them to know that they mattered. that their lives mattered. that immigrants matter. that is why he is going tomorrow. he wants to tell him that himself. >> you know as secretary of labor, you don't have to be a secretary of labor to know this basic information about american history. if you look at any of the great monumental bridges in this country, the brooklyn bridge to the golden gate bridge, the holland tunnel, lincoln tunnels, all built by immigrant labor. all of them. the key bridge will be rebuilt with immigrant labor. a lot of immigrant labor. that is how we have these creations in our transportation system and it is something we should all remember every time we are driving over one of those or going through one of those tunnels. >> absolutely. and by the way, it will be
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built by union labor, union immigrant labor. and, you know, when i was working on tps issues as labor secretary, one of my strongest supporters was the bricklayer's unions because so many immigrants from el salvador came over and not only built america but built bridges of opportunity for their own families. 25% of construction workers are immigrants. predominantly or the lion's share are latinos. you look at the health care sector. same thing. frankly, 20% of the u.s. work force are immigrants are. and, you know, it is not only home health workers, it is nih researchers, where would our nation be without immigrants? we would be nowhere and immigrants have always enriched our nation. and the danger of this moment right now, lawrence, and you have spoken about it eloquently. is that our rich immigrant
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tradition was also for most of our history a bipartisan tradition. when i worked with the u.s. senate in 1996, it is the last time we had immigration reform. ted kennedy, joe biden, patrick lehy, mike dewine from ohio, the republican governor, he was a champion of asylum reform. and we came together. when there was problems in the senate version of that bill, you know what governor came to our rescue to help us? a guy named george w. bush. we have had this long bipartisan history, but we also have to recognize our history moments of isolationism. the know nothing movement. the chinese exclusion act. so many other moments where we had people saying you know, immigrants are vermin and we now all the things a certain
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candidate has said. and we know how wrong they are and how inconsistent they are. i was raised catholic. matthew 25 teaches me and i think i'm not the only person who it teaches that when you have a stranger, you welcome them. that's a tradition in not just christianity, but across faith traditions and for people who don't come from a faith tradition. i think that is who we are. but we have to understand right now that we have other forces at work. and that is why it is so important for the president to be there tomorrow because he will say to these families you matter. he said in the state of the union, i will never separate immigrant families. we almost all came from somewhere else but we are all
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american. these six heros who passed away, their kids are every bit as american as my three u.s. born kids and we have to honor them. and the best way to honor them is to get past this nasty poisonous rhetoric and recognize that we have, that we are a nation of immigrants and a nation of laws. >> how do you think your father would feel to hear donald trump say that he came to this country and he poisoned the blood of this country by bringing you to life in this country? >> you know what my father would say? don't get mad. get to the polls. that's what he would say. and he would remind donald trump that not only did he serve the united states army when he was not yet a citizen, but his four brothers-in-law served in the greatest generation of world war ii as
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immigrants. >> tom, thank you very much for joining us tonight. appreciate it. >> pleasure. >> thank you. and coming up, today, in a phone call with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, president biden called for an immediate cease fire in gaza. that's next. e fire in gaza. that's next. super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients.
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netanyahu. he underscored, as well, that an immediate cease- fire is essential to stabilize and improve the humanitarian situation and protect innocent civilians and he urged prime minister netanyahu to use his power of negotiations to conclude a deal without delay to bring the hostages home. >> joining us now is peter bernard for professional of journalism at the university of new york. msnbc political analyst, and peter, later after that phone call, we get the word that israel has made, as a result of the phone call, made a commitment to open the port for direct delivery of assistance into gaza and possibly other avenues of assistance into gaza so some movement today. >> yes, for a very long time, joe biden has been asking benjamin netanyahu to change his policy. this is a policy that has now led to roughly 11,000 children in gaza dead and benjamin
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netanyahu was not listening to him because benjamin netanyahu doesn't listen to american presidents when they ask him, benjamin netanyahu goes on his own imperative. but when joe biden put the question of u.s. leverage, u.s. military aid on the table, all of a sudden something changed. that is the fundamental difference. if you want israeli policy to change you have to go back to the things that u.s. presidents did all the time during the cold war. this is not a radical thing during the cold war, the u.s. would use its military aid, just like it would with other countries, to express its dissatisfaction, when israel was doing things with which it fundamentally disagreed. i'm sorry it took joe biden so long to get back to that principal. please also you hear antony blinken saying if we don't see the change that we need to see, there will be changes in our own policy. that is a very big move from the secretary himself.
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>> it is a big move but it is the right move. the united states cannot continue to be complicit in what is going down as one of the greatest human made famines of our time, it can't be complicit in a war that has destroyed all of gaza's universities and most of its hospitals. i recently saw a statistic that said if the war ended tomorrow, gaza would return to its growth rate of october 7, it would regain its economic standing in 2092. this is not good for israel's safety because it will produce enormous amounts of israeli hatred of israel and it is producing ace tremendous amount of hatred of the united states. the biden administration is realizing. >> does this put pressure on netanyahu from within israel? >> yes, because, netanyahu was always told israelis they could have their cake and eat it too, they could do whatever they want to the palestinians and
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would never jeopardize their relationship with the united states. and once you prove that that is wrong, and is really see that netanyahu is jeopardizing israel's relationship with its most important partner, that empowers his political adversaries. i think that we are closer now to the close netanyahu area that we were yesterday. >> thank you very much for joining us on this story tonight. >> thank you. we will be right back. i know what it's like to perform through pain. if you're like me, one of the millions suffering
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